I exchanged emails with Chris Sion re: QuickScore. QuickScore had gone through a couple of owners, I think, and you are correct - their unique file format is QSD. I had thought that, maybe in an earlier incarnation, QuickScore had had SNG files as well. Based on what I've been able to figure out, SNG was a MidiSoft file format. I found an "unopened" original version of MidiSoft Studio 4.0 on eBay and will try to install it. I have access to original disks for Windows xP and 98, if I have to reload the OS in order to get MidiSoft to work. Thanks again for all your help - sorry for the breaches in Thread "etiquette". I'll drop you a note if I can "prove" that there was an SNG version that was unique to MidiSoft.

Mac

Don't worry, Mac, I've got you covered. I downloaded MidiSoft Studio 4 and installed it in a virtual Win98. Here are the resulting MIDI files.

Midisoft Studio uses the SNG format to store the MIDI info along with many other things that it allows you to do (from what I was reading, you can work with up to 64 "tracks/channels" at a time). It did note that some information might be lost when saving as a MIDI, but I gave it a quick listen and they sound the same to me.

(As an aside, the "Create New Post" button is currently missing from the forum, so even if you had wanted to create your own thread for this, you would have had to know which hoops to jump through to create the post...)

Well, certainly, on the basis of what Jason has done, these files MUST have been MidiSoft, as they seem to have converted fine.

I've taken the liberty of having a listen to the .MID versions. D1 seems to be a partial version of a version of the same piece. D2 seems to be slightly different, slightly re the instrumentation, and slightly again re some of the variations, but D2 I'd say is complete as there's a start, a middle and an end. Musically, D1 seemed slightly nicer, but D2 is still fine and has the extra benefit of being complete.

Very nice work, really.

Given the respective size of the files (.SNG and .MID), yes, there is a LOT of data that has been lost, but clearly there is a LOT of data in the .SNG that has nothing to do with MIDI. No idea what it might be?

The midi files clearly included instrument settings, and I looked in the raw midi files and saw that, for example, 'Flute' and 'Bass' were there as text. So I did a search of the data in the .SNG file and found the same text, but well through the file, widely spaced out (Flute is at &H7528 and Bass is at &H11A04). Each is followed closely by data, some of which MIGHT be midi data. But it's FAR from obvious.

Keep up the great work!

Geoff

So the info I read was for the first version of the software on... Amiga maybe? I had a quick look through v4 and it seemed to have an "unlimited" amount of tracks available (I stopped scrolling around 365 or so).

Along with saving as a SNG (Song file) and MID, it can also save a MNF (Music notation Format). I'm attaching the MNF for D2, in case you wish to dig through that info as well.

From the "Help" under the Save As option

With Studio for Windows, you can save your new musical creations, modifications, and recordings using one of two file formats: Song, (.SNG) or MIDI Type 1 (.MID). Song files are Midisoft sequencer files and can be opened and read by other Midisoft sequencers. MIDI File Type 1 is a general standard multi-track MIDI file.

Note that the help does not mention the MNF.

It can also record and edit WAV files as part of the project, so it appears to be similar to a lot of the multi-track editors available today in that respect.

Thanks to Jason and Geoff! In the meantime, I found a way to run Windows 3.1 on my current Windows 10 PC (used DosBOX and a downloaded version of 3.1). Then installed MidiSoft Studio 4 (like Jason) and was off and running, easily opening and resaving files in MIDI format. Thanks to you both. There are a LOT of SNG formats...

Hello Mac,

Thanks for the update.

Interesting to hear that you've got your system up and running, and are set to create some MORE great pieces?

I played your D2 piece previously through my 'digital' setup, which comprises SynthFont using the 'Timbres of Heaven' SF2 file for the sound sources, and it sounded pretty good.

I've just gone back to my old 'analog' (vintage) setup, where the midi playback is sent from the all DOS system via the Roland LAPC-I card (acting merely as the interface) to my Yamaha MU90r. Output via a Fostex MC102 Keyboard Mixer. Transferred the midi file to the old setup, and set it playing.

Sounds EVEN BETTER - the MU90r sounds seem to suit it, I don't know what you used when you were composing/creating the piece? The Yamaha box supports some nice reverb too, which was not available via the digital playback. I could try it through the Korg NS5r as well?

I've got a number of GREAT pieces composed/created specifically for the Yamaha box, and some of these are GREAt and others are VERY GREAT and your piece is almost as good, all wonderful for demonstrating what can be achieved with midi - although obviously the composition and the performing helps too!

I could send you some of the Xscape pieces, but you do need an XG Yamaha MU50 or better. They don't sound right with the SynthFont setup even though that has substantial XG support.

Best wishes for your future work.

Geoff

OK, so I figured I would post this to help others. I was a Voyetra User from the beginning and my company was actually a Voyetra Dealer back in the day when they were a small company and BEFORE they were bought by turtle beach.

So making a full working DOS Voyetra system these days can be challenging (Legacy Hardware, VAPI interfaces, VAPI drivers, etc), but the conversion of SNG to MIDI is quite easy as explained before, however I will add some detail that was overlooked.

No original DOS MIDI Hardware is needed at all when launching sequencer Plus Gold, if you attempt to launch any of the batch files, it will error and not load SPG without the hardware...but the main executable will still work without MIDI hardware

On any DOS PC or virtual machine, create a directory SGP directory and copy all the files from the diskette drive image I have attached (version 4.02) or use your old Voyetra floppies.
To launch Voyetra, DO NOT run "SEQ.BAT" or any other BAT files as it will attempt to call and load old driver files that look for your old MIDI hardware, instead...
run "SPG" which launches SPG.EXE

It will sit there for a good minute and appear frozen then it will say "VAPI DRIVER NOT INSTALLED... hit a key for Demo" You are now good to go, you cannot play a song, but you can load and convert your songs in Demo mode. Hit "f" for files, use "M" to toggle mode, load your file while in "SNG Mode" and then simply hit "F" for files, and "M" to change to "MIDI Mode" and then S to Save the file in MIDI mode

This is great! Just found this thread searching for a way go bring my old SNG files back to life. Installed DosBox, then SPG (thanks Vincent). Just converted two of them to see if it worked, it did. Will convert some more this weekend.

Thanks everyone!
Tom

Ciao Geoff. Ho una piccola selezione di file SNG creati con il software Voyetra, molti anni fa, quando ero giovane. Non ho più usato il software Voyetra da quando sono apparsi i computer windows (non più dos). Adesso sono vecchio, ho settantaquattro anni. Mi farebbe piacere riascoltare quei 13 files: potresti riconvertirli per me, per favore?

HI Geoff. I have a small selection of SNG files created with Voyetra software, many years ago when I was young. I haven't used the Voyetra software since windows (no more dos) computers appeared. Now I am old, I am seventy-four years old. I'd like to listen to those 13 files again: could you convert them back for me, please?

Sandro

Hello Alessandro,

Yes, hopefully I can do this, but untill I get them I cannot be 100% sure, re versions, or corruption to file, etc.

The best way is to put your .sng files into a .zip file, and attach that to a message here. If there are a few files only, and things work, then I can do this in a day or so.

Geoff

Hello Alessandro,

Looking forwards to seeing your .sng files - 13 should not be a problem, maybe take me an extra day or so?

I'm just 73 by the way, so a tiny bit more young! I still do various things with older computers, including floppy disks, so keeping working DOS machines is VITAL! Voyetra is installed on a pentium 1 at present, but there's a fully operational 486sx as well.

Geoff

Ciao Geoff, scusa per il ritardo nella risposta, Faccio il nonno a tempo pieno e non ho sempre il tempo per accendere il mio Mac. Ti allego lo zip con i miei 13 files SNG, e ti ringrazio già da ora per il tuo aiuto.

Hi Geoff, sorry for the late reply, I'm a full time grandfather and don't always have time to fire up my Mac. I'm attaching the zip file with my 13 SNG files, and thanking you already for your help.

Alessandro,

Thanks, got your attachment. I'll look into it asap.

Geoff

Alessandro,

Just to let you know that I've tried to unpack your .zip file, and there's a problem, but I should be able to get around this.

I've got 12 .SNG files out, these were created between 27/7/92 and 25/2/93. These may well be fine, I'll sort these out first. From 30 years ago!

But, your directory seems to contain some other copies (?) in a MACOSX subdir, and I suspect you've created the .zip on your MAC, so my DOS version of PKUNZIP isn't totally happy. I may need to use something else (JZip ?) to get the rest out, - I'm sure everything else is there.

I'll get Voyetra fired up and see what happens there.

Geoff

Alessandro,

Well, I wanted to hear what was happening...

I've done 6 or the files, should be in a .zip attached.

I saw from one (AMOREDI) that you were using a Yamaha TG55. I looked at my Yamaha MU90r and I see that that has a TG300 mode, that may not be exactly right but maybe it's near enough. I set my box to TG300, and played AMOREDI, it seems to work perfectly, sounds OK, so if any of the voices are not perfect it's not enough to make anything sound too strange.

So, the midi conversion is fine, everything is good.

I'll keep going.

Geoff