Hello Didier,

Interesting that you mention almost in passing that you're using a W10 system. This fact is much more important than that.

What else is your computer doing, when it needs to be giving as near to 100% of it's attention to your MIDI actions. How many of the other things can you stop, suspend, remove or whatever? Maybe it's certain specific things that are causing the problems, esp the 'random' variations, only, and you need to work out what those things are and stop them.

Ideally, when you're trying to do MIDI things, you need a platform that can give you TOTAL attention, as even the slightest distraction will affect the timing and you will hear it.

You mention two external units - how are those connected to the computer. I doubt that they are the cause of the problem. They MIGHT be introducing some delay, but it's likely to be regular (until the PC gets involved).

This is merely an initial thought (suspicion) and I need to get more information from you.

If you CAN spot a process or two that is kicking in a lot/regularly, and stop that, and the situation improves even a little bit, this could indicate what the problem might be.

Do you have any software that will monitor how 'busy' the system is, on a moment-by-moment basis. Showing any spikes of activity? Your system may well be more than powerful to cope with all this, but it's the TIMING of when these things happen that's important. You don't want your MIDI data being slowed down just because WinDoze is playing with a pretty indicator on your screen, 'he;pful' though it might be (at other times).

Geoff

Didier,

I've had a look regarding W10, and I see that you can assign priorities to Processes (but I think only processes, can't see anything similar to other things).

You can go into Task Manager, and check the list of processes running.

If there are any processes running re MIDI, i.e. any drivers, make sure these are set as high as possible, even to RealTime. Esp if they are currently low.

If there are any processes that seem to be very busy, and not important, then reduce the priority of these.

At least make sure that any MIDI relevant processes have higher priority than any that seem busy.

That may be easy to do, and see if it helps any?

Geoff

Hello Didier,

I've been looking things up via Google, as you didn't explain much about your setup, or what you were doing with it.

I note that the Arturia Beatstep is a percussion controller, which also includes a step sequencer so you can program patterns. Not sure if it has sounds built-in, but there is no standard MIDI IN (OUT only) although I think it can receive MIDI via USB.

The Nektar Audio (can't trace this, do you mean the Aura?) is a similar sort of thing, but no sequencer, and this can load your own sounds, but this CAN receive and play from MIDI IN.

How do you connect these together, with the computer, as in which device do you 'play' to generate the MIDI data, and which device would receive the MIDI and make the actual sounds? Seems like you could do this without the computer, so how does the computer fit into things?

If you load a midi file into your DAW, and play it to the Nektar alone, how does that work?

If you create a sequence on the Arturia, and play that to the Nektar, what does that do?

You refer to a 'sound card' - what is that? something in the computer? How is that linked into things?

Geoff

Chers Messieurs

Thank you for your answers, I finally did a fresh install of my pc and I'm now on Windows 11 (which doesn't change the problem) I have an Asus H470, Intel i7 2.9 and 32GB RAM with SSD, I normally use Reason 12 with an Akai Midimix + Akai MPKmini and Nektar's Beatstep or Aura (I bought the latter thinking the Beatstep was the culprit).
My windows is really basic, apart from the sound card and the NVDIA panel, there are no application processes running. I tried to see the greedy processes in the background but nothing alarming. I looked with the "LatencyMoon" application but I don't see too much problem. What would be my solutions other than Windows 11? Would a USB HUB help? An external midi clock?

I have Tested with Reason 10, Ableton 11, and Demo version opf Cubase and Reaper .. same problèms ..

With midi view, on 1/4 and 4/4 here are the results, each time there is 1rms more or less

3,03:43:18.675,out,Note on C3 Velocity 64,1,64,90 3C 40

18,03:43:18.973,out,Note off C3 Velocity 64,1,64,80 3C 40

29,03:43:19.174,out,Note on C3 Velocity 64,1,64,90 3C 40

44,03:43:19.473,out,Note off C3 Velocity 64,1,64,80 3C 40

55,03:43:19.674,out,Note on C3 Velocity 64,1,64,90 3C 40

70,03:43:19.973,out,Note off C3 Velocity 64,1,64,80 3C 40

81,03:43:20.174,out,Note on C3 Velocity 64,1,64,90 3C 40

96,03:43:20.473,out,Note off C3 Velocity 64,1,64,80 3C 40

107,03:43:20.674,out,Note on C3 Velocity 64,1,64,90 3C 40

122,03:43:20.973,out,Note off C3 Velocity 64,1,64,80 3C 40

133,03:43:21.174,out,Note on C3 Velocity 64,1,64,90 3C 40

148,03:43:21.473,out,Note off C3 Velocity 64,1,64,80 3C 40

159,03:43:21.674,out,Note on C3 Velocity 64,1,64,90 3C 40

174,03:43:21.973,out,Note off C3 Velocity 64,1,64,80 3C 40

185,03:43:22.173,out,Note on C3 Velocity 64,1,64,90 3C 40

Many thanks for your help

Hello,

I still don't understand how you're generating the midi data, and where it's going. You say there's a problem with it, but I'm not sure there is.

Consider the image in your first post. This shows something akin to a 'piano roll' display. I'm not sure what the scale is, but I'd assume that the slightly more prominent vertical lines show the quarter notes, so I'd guess that there are 4 of these per par, and there are 8 subdivisions within each note. But that is just a guess.

You are showing two notes per bar.

There is NOTHING 'wrong' showing here. It may NOT be what you're expecting, or wanting, but there's nothing wrong. You might be playing slightly off the beat, i.e. slightly late, As far as I can see, all the notes showing are the same amount off the beat, so I don't see the 'random' variation you mentioned in your first post. Was this played live, or was it recorded into the sequencer and then replayed? Live music often shows as being 'off', this is one of the reasons why sequencer software has the Quantise options to put notes back onto the beat. The problem with this sort of thing is that music that is slightly 'off' can sound more natural/human, while music that is too much 'on' the beat can sound too mechanical/robotic.

If all the display is the same, there might be a problem (disparity) between the set timing, i.e. a click or beat track that you are playing to, and the actual midi timing. Again, I don't know how you're doing this, so I'm guessing. Again.

Can you play something, just a number of seconds, and save the result into a midi file, and attach the file. That might be more help.

Geoff

Non-midi technical matters.

I did a quick reference to Google.

The first file/process on the list you show is Wdf01000.sys - this is part of the MS Driver Framework, and is an important part of Windows.

BUT it may be being invoked far too much, and this could be causing latency, but I don't know for sure.

These things are relative. the ISP count is a LOT higher than other things, but is this normal. Need to know what the data is like for normal use, i.e. nothing to do with midi, or sound, etc

Use Google to do a search for Wdf01000.sys, and see all the results you get. Incl 'Blue Screen of Death' references.

Wfd01 errors can indicate problems with drives, i.e. you're using the wrong version of a driver.

The ISR column on the data you show will be Interrupt Service Requests, which is the number of times the process has been invoked via Tnterrupt - and a LOT of this sort of thing could interfere with timing. BUT - what is a LOT on one computer, as opposed to another conputer??

The DPC column refers to Deferred Proc Call - in other words the system has tried to call the proc and has been unable to do so - prob it's in use already. This may cause some extra delay?

I do NOT know what normal/usual numbers should be for this, but the numbers for Wfd... MIGHT be way too high, and could indicate a significant problem which could be causing delays. Drivers you're using may not be suitable for W10 or 11??

Geoff

Looking at the numbers you sent in the table, with the note timings (the MIDI 'tick' counts would have made the job easier) I note that this data is quite OK, and shows no sign of anything odd within the data.

All the note lengths are approx 298 (micro secs ?), and all the gaps between the end of one note and the start of the next are approx 200.

I'd assume that this later data is different to the data in the piano roll image in your first post?

If there is any time lost, it is at the very beginning, before the first note, so that the first note is off-beat, all the others are similarly moved along in timing relative to the bar grid.

I've come back to this a little later. I'm now thinking that the first number in your data IS the tick count, although they are unusually low compared to what is normally seen. Is this only 24 ticks per quarter note, when 96 is more normal. Then I looked at the data again, and I thought - why is the first note timed at 3 ticks? What's happened to ticks 0, 1 and 2? Then I thought, I bet the 'pause' that's causing so much worry is about 3 ticks.

Midi music starts at tick 0. When any system tries to display the midi data as bars etc, it starts at 0. So there is in effect a 3 tick 'rest' at the start of the music. So prob this 'gap' is nothing to do with 'latency' at all, You've put (prob accidentally) a 3 tick rest at the start, and everything is adjusted to accommodate this.

Does that make sense?

Geoff

Hi,

I thank you very much for all your leads.
I have searched for the Wdf01000.sys process and others but there is no problem at this level on this pc.
I'm going to format my disk again, reinstall windows 11 properly , install MAJ and sound card drivers, Beatstep and Reason and we'll see tomorrow if it changes anythings.

Lien pour le fichier .mid https://www.dropbox.com/s/f5bb9an64b9r6jo/test_midi_clock.mid?dl=0
Lien youtube pour la vidéo de très mauvaise qualitée https://www.youtube.com/shorts/X9PxY3svoaw

On the video, first the external sequencer is played and then I add the kick of the daw (I am surely not very clear)

Thanks for your help and support

Didier,

The file you've attached is NOT a .mid file - looks like some sort of document file, or html, containing html code, image data, and other things.

Please note that I added to my last posting, so maybe there's part you have not noted?

Geoff

Geoff, the link brings you to the Dropbox website, and the file can be downloaded from there. I downloaded and played it on my phone quick just as a test.

Jason,

I had wondered if that was the case - I tried the link directly last night, and I've just tried it again. Nothing happens. I just get a blank browser screen.

Did you determine anything from the .mid file?

I have used dropbox before a number of times without problem, I might even have a dropbox account of some sort from long ago.

Geoff

[quotePost id=17413]Did you determine anything from the .mid file?[/quotePost]

Nope, just gave it a quick listen on my phone. Not sure what I would be looking for to help out on this one :p

But I've zipped and attached the file for you.

It's terrible this story ...
I bought a sequencer (normally made to work with my DAW) saying to myself, cool, plug & play ... I didn't think I would have to tear my hair out, have to do audio and computer engineering. spelling out thousands of forums, posts about midi clock ... damn it's 2023 ! and I can't afford to be on a Mac (as long as their midi clock is nicer....) anyway ... would a usb HUB or an external midi clock solve my problem ? knowing that I have everything on usb ... AURA and BEATSTEP have only one midi output ... I contacted Arturia, Nektar, and ESI ... nobody has a solution ... fuck ... anyway ... the one who will find the solution will be my king !

(Sorry i'm Swiss and I don't speak English)

Didier,

I've now got the midi file you sent, thanks Jason. I've had a look at the data in that.

Firstly, this data is quite different to the data you listed in an earlier message. I was looking at that, and doing some calcs based on it, and that might all be a waste of time. My comments about a 3 ticks delay at the start do not tie in with the data in the midi file, which starts with a Note On event at Tick 0. So where the data you showed come from, and how that relates - if at all - to data in the midi file, I'd like to know.

I was also commenting on the tick resolution, but the data in the midi file shows a MUCH higher tick resolution, with 15360 ticks per quarter note, whereas a normal resolution might be 480 tpqn or maybe 960.

Again, the data in the midi file looks totally normal (apart from the 'resolution' figure (which is seriously over the top. The notes seem to be starting on the beat, i.e. on multiples of 15360, although I've checked only a little way into the file, the size of the tick numbers makes checking difficult.

You refer to timing and midi clocks - what are you trying to do with this?

I've never done anything with this sort of thing, I've never needed to. I'm not sure that you need to? You might need to worry about this when you're using drum machines, where you want to use other things that need to keep to the same timing, or again you might be using two different sequencers playing 'recorded/stored' data. If you're working totally in real time, then you should be OK. For example, if you've recorded something on a sequencer, then you can replay those track(s) while playing a keyboard live in sync to the sequencer sounds? If that's what you're doing, and it doesn't work, in what way?

By the way, I can manage a reasonable amount of French, I might need to look up some words? If that would help. The English you've displayed so far seems pretty good.

Geoff