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  Sunday, 09 May 2021
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I'm trying to find the origins of this MIDI file, I know it's from a free MIDIs website but I can't seem to find anything.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/805179152122642465/841062813581312030/SADWALTZ.mid

the author's comment just says this:
.u..f..r (probably the artist)

melody
pizzicato (bass)
Harp
6 months ago
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#8871
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The quick answer is no.

Basically, there isn't enough information to go on.

I've just downloaded the file, and played it. Actually quite a sweet little piece - I'd be interested to know where it comes from.

It could be an original piece, it could have originated in another form and been much changed, so the present details could be other that the original form. Ditto regarding the filename.

Some extra details, which may help. Note midi sites indicate a timing for the file, note that this piece shows as 3:36, and the file size is 8k. The melody track is played here using the Pan Pipes instrument, although I suspect that the range on this track is rather wider than is usual for Pan Pipes, I'd guess at least 2 octaves. There are wider PP instruments, but I'm not sure the widest ones go far enough. I've got some LPs etc of PP music (i.e. Georges Zamfir).

The piece sounds fairly 'modern' to me. A version of a song, or from a film score? Just guesses.

Geoff
6 months ago
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#8872
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Extra info - the site you link to is discordapp - this is not really a 'free MIDI site', it's a sort of messageing system (sort of like twitter etc) so the file may have been placed there by the author/performer? Your best bet would be to try to access the system and contact whoever posted the file (attached it to their posting/message/channel) and ask.

Geoff
6 months ago
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#8873
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the author's comment just says this:
.u..f..r (probably the artist)
Note: There was a cracked version of sequencer software Cakewalk that would put a text event containing ".u..f..r" in the MIDI files it made. So ".u..f..r" is probably the person or group that cracked the software and not a useful lead about the author or source of the MIDI file.
6 months ago
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#8874
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The piece sounds fairly 'modern' to me. A version of a song, or from a film score? Just guesses.


It's somewhere between the 2000's or 2010's. It comes from a game on ROBLOX and the creator said the song was called "Sad Walts (walts was probably misspelled)" and the link to the original song was removed around 2013-2014. The creator's account is long gone as it is deactivated.

Extra info - the site you link to is discordapp - this is not really a 'free MIDI site', it's a sort of messageing system (sort of like twitter etc) so the file may have been placed there by the author/performer? Your best bet would be to try to access the system and contact whoever posted the file (attached it to their posting/message/channel) and ask.


I used discordapp to host the file. But I know for sure the creator used a free MIDI site to get this file.

While I was googling more information I came across a Yahoo! Answers page saying the song could be 'Sad Waltz' by Micheal Ford. But I don't think they're the same.
6 months ago
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#8886
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Aha thanks - now you tell us.

Yes, it may well be a spelling mistake, but it may be intentional, so do your searches for 'Sad Walts' and you may get further.

There seem to be (at least) 3 YouTube videos of this, with varying amounts of (limited) information. The sound quality isn't too good, the instrumentation isn't the same as the midi file you posted, but these are the same 'song'.

The midi file you had is much better, apart from the fact that the Pan Flute is trying to play 'out of range' in places, that aside your file is pretty good..

All the versions seem to be 're-creations' from the original game or videos of the original game. The original composer is unknown. I saw a reference to the original files for the song being now 'lost'., so I guess that a recreation is all that's possible.

There seem to be similar videos of other songs, don't know if any others are as nice?

One of the nice things about a midi file is that you can experiment with the arrangement, trying different sounds, etc. Until you find something 'better' (for you ?)

Geoff
6 months ago
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#8889
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Maybe you need to be looking at the WayBack machine archives (via web.archive.org) - this system (I think there are others too) is constantly archiving the web, and there is a massive database of material archived and accessible.

I've had a little play, and I wa looking at active versions of ROBLOX for various years, going back as far as 2003, but seemingly more complete 2008, 2010 etc. These are versions that you can log into, select games, and I assume play, as if they were live or current (performance seems to be very slow mind you, which is understandable).

If you have ideas as to when this music was still active, and if it was associated with specific games, what the game(s) are, you might find something (but I don't know if EVERYTHING is archived to the same degree).

I've no idea how ROBLOX works (or worked back then), so I'm not going in. But the archived systems are available. And this may NOT be part of the normal Google search.

You need to include 'Wayback machine' or 'web.archive.org' in your search.

There are web tutorials on how to refine your search of the archive, but I've not gone into that.

NB, this relates to archived copies of stuff. Even if the files and links have been deleted from the 'live' web, they may still be there in the archived copy. There may be multiple copies, archived at different dates - may just need to find the right one?

Geoff
6 months ago
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#8927
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I was playing the midi file via the SF system (SynthFont with the Timbres of Heaven SF data) I've now fired up the old setup with the DOS computer, the Roland midi card, outputting to the Yamaha MU90r module, and it sounds VERY good. I really rather like the piece.

Yes, the Pan Pipes have some high notes that sound somewhat strained, but not so bad on the more natural MU90r unit. I do like the mix of instruments here as well, the Pipes for the melody, the Pizzicato Orchestral sound for a bass line and the Orchestral Harp. May be something set in the midi file, but there's reverb set on all three parts which rounds everything off.. Much nicer than the instruments on the YouTube versions on the web, but then the YouTube sound quality isn't as goot anyway.

Nice piece to have, thanks.

Geoff
6 months ago
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#8940
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I made a mistake when extracting the MIDI out of the game, I was extracting it by getting the HEX code used to play the MIDI and pasted it in HxD to make it into a MIDI file but it seems I didn't copy all of it so a big chunk was missing.

Here's the updated one (sorry :P): https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/805179152122642465/841126986466590730/SALTWAD.mid
6 months ago
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#8943
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Hello,

Wow, yes, that's quite a lot extra, various tracks, various instruments. Much more lush sound, although maybe the original version you did was clearer and 'sweeter'?

Just what did you do there, and how. I take it you have access to the original game, and the music is created using midi information within the game. You've been able to 'capture' the midi data as it's playing, and you've then got that data into a midi file. Is that so?

In what form do you have the game, and the files associated with it? Is there a discreet midi file already there, or is the midi data mixed into another file. Is there not another file with some more info about the composer? Maybe you've got the answer to your original question, hidden somewhere in the data you've got?

As I noted above, there are others asking about this music, and there are at least a couple of 're-creations' of the music on YouTube. These versions are not in the same league as what you have here. Many YouTube videos have an open 'comments' area, you can just go in and leave a message for future viewers of the video. You could easily 'blow your own trumpet' (quite justified) and tell people that you have 'captured' a complete version of the song, and it can be downloaded from (here). I think you SHOULD do that!

Geoff
6 months ago
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#8951
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Just what did you do there, and how. I take it you have access to the original game, and the music is created using midi information within the game. You've been able to 'capture' the midi data as it's playing, and you've then got that data into a midi file. Is that so?


Back in the older days of ROBLOX there was no way to import your own music to your game, so a guy named Gamehero made a plugin in Lua (programming language) that allows MIDI files converted into Base16/Hex to playback like they normally would if they weren't even converted. What I did here was just reverse the entire process, I got a hold of the .rbxl place file (Roblox Place Data in XML) by dumping it using an unofficial program and went to Roblox Studio and found the value that contained the Hex data to play the song, I pasted the entire Hex code into a program called HxD and saved the file as a MIDI file. Thus, creating the MIDI song you've been listening to! :)

Is there not another file with some more info about the composer? Maybe you've got the answer to your original question, hidden somewhere in the data you've got?


All the information the plugin receives comes from the Hex data, which is the entire MIDI file.

As I noted above, there are others asking about this music, and there are at least a couple of 're-creations' of the music on YouTube. These versions are not in the same league as what you have here. Many YouTube videos have an open 'comments' area, you can just go in and leave a message for future viewers of the video. You could easily 'blow your own trumpet' (quite justified) and tell people that you have 'captured' a complete version of the song, and it can be downloaded from (here). I think you SHOULD do that!


I actually got a hold of some of these people, they about as clueless as I am. I should also mention the reason why each version sounds different than mine is because ROBLOX back then didn't actually allow MIDI playback, basically Gamehero's plugin got information about the notes (the pitch, tempo, octave, speed, volume, etc) and made sounds with said notes with the default sounds ROBLOX had. Which in this case, the "mellow electric piano" is actually "electronicshortping.wav" (as seen here: https://youtu.be/LPIIJwdgSPY?t=104) so any version with a plunky sort of mellow piano is the ROBLOX one, any other one is just actual GM.dls or a SoundFont.

I should also mention that some of the people are actually on the search on finding this composer too, in the past I found another MIDI ROBLOX used before and I managed to locate the actual composer and the actual composer HIMSELF commented on my video saying that he's impressed on how many people are still listening to his music! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EneEXjNSLYU check comments)

This is basically what I do on my spare time, find the composers of many songs used in ROBLOX and get in contact with them. I'm actually friends with some of them and we usually talk from time to time. :D
6 months ago
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#8952
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Back in the older days of ROBLOX there was no way to import your own music to your game, so a guy named Gamehero made a plugin in Lua (programming language) that allows MIDI files converted into Base16/Hex to playback like they normally would if they weren't even converted. What I did here was just reverse the entire process, I got a hold of the .rbxl place file (Roblox Place Data in XML) by dumping it using an unofficial program and went to Roblox Studio and found the value that contained the Hex data to play the song, I pasted the entire Hex code into a [hex editor] program called HxD and saved the file as a MIDI file. Thus, creating the MIDI song you've been listening to!


This process sounds interesting!

Is the original .rbxl file you are working from available somewhere?

Can you describe your process in more detail?

It sounds like your process to create these MIDI files might be more involved than just copying and pasting bytes into a hex editor. A simple copy and paste of bytes into a hex editor suggests to me that the two files you made would begin with the exact same bytes and have exactly the same header. However, your original file (SADWALTZ.mid) has a header indicating the file contains 4 tracks and has a resolution of 600 ticks per quarter note. But your updated file (SALTWAD.mid) has a header indicating the file contains 11 tracks and has a resolution of 120 ticks per quarter note.

If the .rbxl file really contains an exact copy of a MIDI file embedded in it, it'd be helpful to get the exact bytes it contains.

For example, one idea I thought of was to search online for the MD5 hash of the MIDI file, and hope that maybe some website somewhere has the same MIDI file listed with its MD5 hash, and maybe has some more clues about who made the file or where it came from.

But this idea won't work if any bytes are changed. For example, if something is fixing the header to indicate only the number of tracks you recovered, then a byte in the header will be different and the MD5 hash will change. And if something is updating the MIDI file resolution to a different value, then every delta time in the MIDI file will get updated, and the MD5 hash will change.

(By the way, in Windows, you can get the MD5 hash of a file using Windows PowerShell ISE. In the Commands pane I searched for Get-FileHash, then filled in the location of the file, selected Algorithm MD5 and clicked Run, and it calculated the MD5 hash of the file.)
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